Fundies Condemning Nativity Movie

In their ongoing ministry of condemnation discernment, Slice is railing against Christians who recommend seeing The Nativity Story (which BTW, isn't getting great reviews - "An effective pitch for Christianity as the dullest religion ever.")

But I digress.  Slice says:

God has never promised to bless movies. He promises to bless the preaching of the Word.

I guess someone better tell Campus Crusade to stop showing the Jesus film.  Oh yeah, and all of those youth groups using innovative ways to communicate the gospel, like drama and music?  Waste of time.  And medical missions?  Well, maybe that could be construed as "service," but you know, it sure isn't preaching. 

In fact. I guess those trying to develop a biblical world view for other disciplines and professions should just quit now - I mean, if it's not evangelizing, what good is it?

This hyper-utilitarianism is exactly the type of isolationist and narrow logic that Frankie Schaeffer rightly condemns in his book Addicted to Mediocrity.  Such doctrines cause men to abandon culture to the unregenerate. 

Comments

[Lawanda]

Personally I do think all the "movie drama" is a waste of time, as far as "evengalizing" goes.

But honestly. I think my whole view of teaching ANYthing must be just "fundie".

I am not into using movies to teach.

I like for my kids to be able to read whatever, and get out of it some kind of lesson (like a moral life lesson or a language lesson). Whether it is How The Grinch Stole Christmas or Harry Potter or The Bible or Tom Sawyer or The Count of Monte Cristo or Hamlet or Little Women.

I think of the movies as kind of like icing. Good, but sometimes too much. I ALWAYS like the books better than the movies. It must be the fundie coming out in me.

[Louis]

I've found that, generally, great books make bad movies, while mediocre or poor books make better film (not always, of course: "The Lord of the Rings" is both a great book and a great movie, as is Olivier's "Hamlet").

How about favorite biblical movies? Mine, by far, is the ultra-campy "The Ten Commandments." I also liked the mini-series "Jesus of Nazareth." My favorite xian movie is "Shadowlands."

[Neo-Con]

Speaking of the Nativity, is December 25th really the day Jesus was born? Here is the truth...

The Christmas Story (Comic Strip)

Merry Mithras (You Tube Video)

Wow, looks like Jesus is a total rip off of Mithras.

[seeker]

Yep, the holiday is a farce. So what are we to do?

As I said once before, xmas is both Christian and pagan.

Also, see the five possible responses I listed in Atheists Attempt to Kill Easter Bunny

[seeker]

And Louis, my favorite Christian movie is... um... heck, maybe I don't have one, but don't forget, I did post my list of Spiritually Significant Films.

[Cineaste]

If you think about it, Santa Clause is really an enslaver of elves. Poor elves :)

[seeker]

Hey, Santa and Satan use the same letters. Coincidence? I think NOT. ;)

Santa's reindeer need to be gutted and turned into venison jerky, and he needs to get on a weight loss program and stop impersonating real saints.

[Sam]

Yeah. Yeah. Fundies. Boo Fundies, for demanding that something remain as it always was. Boo Fundies, for insisting that everybody else is wrong. Boo Fundies, for judging people who dare to do things differently. Boo Fundies, for refusing to live by their own preconceived rules. Boo Fundies.

Seeker, even though we fight, I appreciate you more than ever around the holidays: you're the gift that keeps on giving...and giving...and giving.

[seeker]

Why, because I am not a pedantic Santa sycophant? Because I like to criticize the unhealthy fundies? Because I don't celebrate Kwanzaa?

[Sam]

Because of the bizarre relationship you have with fundamentalists while acting like one on numerous other issues.

[Louis]

I always wondered about one thing: what are "reindeer games." And does Santa join in?

How about a fav xmas movie? Mine is "The Nightmare Before Christmas."

[Cineaste]

I did some research on Mithras and it looks like Jesus is indeed a "rip off" of Mithras...

Mithra, by the way, was born on December 25, of a virgin. His birth was witnessed by shepherds and magicians [magi]. Mithra raised the dead and healed the sick and cast out demons. He returned to heaven at the spring equinox and before doing so had a last supper with his 12 disciples (representing the 12 signs of the zodiac), eating mizd, a piece of bread marked with a cross (an almost universal symbol of the sun). Any of that sound familiar?

- http://www.locksley.com/6696/xmas.htm

If this is true, it puts Christianity in a new light. Wow!

[Lawanda]

I have always thought that man needs religion, therefore most religions are very similar. Mithras has always interested me.

As far as reindeer games...I think I would rather not know! lol

And being "fundie" has made me a good teacher, but that is my own opinion...based, of course, on the fact that my oldest three kids could read (books mind you, not just words) by ages 3, 4, and 5. And that they are all about two or three "grade levels" ahead of all their peers. :-D

Ok, bragging ceased. I really do think that most people's method of teaching is a load of crap. I truly do tend to be pretty "fundie" about that, I guess. :-p

[Neo-Con]

Professor Richard Dawkins Speaks at Fair Hills Kindergarten Regarding Santa Claus, December 2, 2006.

From an early point in your infancy, you people have been done a great injustice. Santa Claus, Kris Kringle, Father Christmas—the names may differ from country to country, but the idea always remains a constant. No doubt you've drawn pictures of him, watched films depicting him, sung songs about him. A benevolent jolly fellow whose sole purpose is to monitor your behavior year-round by inexplicable means only to separate children into two drastically oversimplified groups: naughty or nice. With the aid of elfin employees and flying reindeer, this Good Samaritan delivers gifts to all the nice children of the world in a single evening. You'll know him by his long white beard and belly that jiggles like a bowl full of jelly, they say. On the contrary, you'll know him as nonsense, because that's precisely what he is.

As a scientist, I seek the truth. Do you understand? The universe is a highly complex place, ever evolving and changing, billions of years in the making. Darwinian evolution enables us to comprehend who we are and where we've come from. It is only science that can provide us with these answers. Blind faith, grand design, the belief that things "just happen" without any rational explanation or evidence are all part of an alternative nonscience. Santa Claus, with his long white beard and sack full of goodies, is a rather precise example of this.

If you are the sort of person who is interested in the truth, perhaps you would consider asking yourself this question: how exactly does a single elderly man not only manufacture but also deliver in a single evening what would, by all forms of logic, account to be millions of toys? Certainly, if you press this issue to its core, more difficult questions will arise, but as I have been told we are short on time, we'll stick with the meat and bones, so to speak, of this one. Your parents and teachers will most likely say something to the effect of "Why, he has elves that help build toys year-round in his North Pole workshop." And in response to how a man delivers all these goods in a single evening? Unsurprisingly, the response to this has not changed since I was a lad: he does it with the aid of Christmas Magic. Indeed—Christmas Magic, that wonderful, majestical force. A single drop of it allows a man to fly around the world in a sleigh led by nine tiny reindeer. Fascinating, isn't it? Now, before I continue on, let me first make it clear that I am not claiming that the existence of Santa or wonderful industrious elves or Christmas Magic is impossible. I cannot prove that they do not exist any more than I can disprove the existence of fairies or leprechauns. What I can tell you is that statistic probability and science can provide us with a clear look at the truth, and if we are willing to be honest with ourselves as a result of this data, then we will quite quickly see that there simply is no scientific foundation for any of the aforementioned phenomena.

What there is evidence of is that it is none other than your parents who leave gifts marked "From Santa" beneath the tree, just as it is your parents who consume the milk and biscuits you so thoughtfully leave out on Christmas Eve prior to heading off to bed. If you refuse these methods and persist with the nonscience of Christmas Magic—that is, if you continue to claim that Santa's "powers" arose from some indefinable source—then you are wading in some very murky waters indeed. It is a rejection of all logic. Why not the Pink Unicorn Man or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? No rational scientist would accept any information without a source, without a foundation, and neither should you.

My goal in all of this is that, as children, you should be raised only on truth, reason, fact, and intellect. Together we should be working toward a point in the not-so-distant future where the words "Santa Claus" or "Kris Kringle" or "Father Christmas" create the same response as fingernails on a chalkboard. There is nothing wrong with disbelief in Santa. I can see that the topic makes many of you uncomfortable. However, this should not be viewed as a bad thing. You may weep now, but your tears are a positive, not a negative. You are now facing the truth, which comes in many forms and is not always comfortable. This is a fact that you will be exposed to again and again throughout your lives. If you wish to live a life that contains only comfortable information and not necessarily the truth, then yours will be a highly deluded existence. Your intellectual maturity depends on whether or not you are capable of accepting the truth at this early age. That is why there is no better place to begin than with the absurdity that is Santa Claus and Christmas Magic. Now then, with all that said, I wish to thank you for your time today, and I should like very much to open up the floor to any questions you may have.

[Neo-Con]

Sorry, wrong link. Correct link is...

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/monologues/18richarddawkins.html

[seeker]

Fav xmas movie - Muppet Christmas Carol

Mithras - didn't he fight Godzilla in one movie?

Dawkins on Santa - I have to say, I somewhat agree with Dawkins on the whole Santa thing. While I have no problem telling my kids about the supernatural and real Jesus, I do have a problem deceiving my kids into believing something that ain't. They can have plenty of sense of wonder and imagination without being duped into believing things which are patently false.

[seeker]

For instance, they can imagine what dinosaurs were like, dragons (which may have been real animals now extinct), they can imagine the great battles and events from history, they can dream about the future of technology, imagine whole new worlds of allegory or fiction.

More than that, they can live a life of faith, which is a life of adventure, mystery, spiritual battle, creativity, and many other joys. Getting rid of Santa or any other imaginary pagan creature is no big loss.

Because of the bizarre relationship you have with fundamentalists while acting like one on numerous other issues.

While it is true that I agree with fundies on some issues, in large part, they are much too narrow for me. Sorry if I don't fit the monolith of fundamentalism, nor that of moderate conservative or any other clean category you have in your mind. I am an independent thinker, and no authority is above question, not even God - though I try to approach God with a little more circumspection.

As I like to say, God spoke through an ass once, so he certainly could speak through a preacher or an unbeliever, or even me ;)

[Cineaste]

I have to say, I somewhat agree with Dawkins on the whole Santa thing.

It's satire.

[seeker]

Is it? It sounds just like him. If not, I'd say he is being disingenuous about his dislike for religion.

[Sam]

My daughter asked me about favorite Christmas movies, and I couldn't think of any. I'm not sure I'm a big fan of the genre.

[Pam Earls]

Favorite Christmas movie: White Christmas - I love Bing Crosby.

I encourage my children to believe in Santa. I think once they reach a certain age or if they ask me if he is real I will tell them the truth. Santa to me is a symbol of what humanity should be like. Giving our all to help out those weaker than us.
We could all take lessons from Santa. Christmas is about Santa, The Nativity Story, whether in December of June is about a Father sending His Son to earth to live a perfect life and then to give His all, His Life for my sins and the sins of the World.
Yes, early Christians to avoid being executed for their beliefs celebrated Christian holidays around pagan holidays and through the years the pagan rituals have been integrated with the Christian traditions but that is the way of the world.
Merry Christmas Everyone! The Earls

[Cineaste]

I encourage my children to believe in Santa. I think once they reach a certain age or if they ask me if he is real I will tell them the truth.

When I was 6 I figured out Santa was not real. One Christmas, I noticed the label "Made in Japan" and asked my parents, "Shouldn't this say 'North Pole?'"

Christmas is about... a Father sending His Son to earth to live a perfect life and then to give His all, His Life for my sins and the sins of the World.

I don't know about this because if Jesus is God wouldn't he be sending Himself? Anyway, I think Christmas is about altruism. I don't bother with the Christian trappings anymore though I do still have the pagan tree :) Merry Christmas to you Christians out there. Happy Holidays to you non Christians!

[Lawanda]

Funny thing: my oldest dd got me in big trouble with all her friends' moms.

They were mad at me because Kela was telling their kids Santa was a made up story. She was about 4 or 5 I think.

Well, I couldnt lie to her and tell her something imaginary (that I know for a fact is imaginary, obviously) was real. But I did tell her not to ruin other kids' christmas by telling them it was made up. I told her that people like for their kids to believe in fairy stories as long as they can.

My second dd now, she still likes to talk about how santa is coming... blah blah blah. And she is 9! She is the more imaginary type. :)

[Sam]

Merry Christmas Pam and Aaron. Also, I agree here with Pam. Encouraging children to be giving and kind toward others is important. If it takes feigned belief in Santa, I'm willing to do that.

[Cineaste]

I did more research on Jesus because I am trying to find out about who Jesus really was and I am curious about the resurrection part of his story. I found this piece which answered a lot of my questions...

Solar Mythology - Origins of religious belief

[think]

I'll only say that youtube.com is probably the worst place to do 'research' about serious matters. Next worse place: the internet. My reason? The ability to find a defense of both extremes of any subject matter. Expertise and authority mean nothing. It just seems like it can be a really huge waste of time if you accidentally take the wrong 'branch' of a search path. But how are you to know it's the wrong or the right branch? My 2 Cents.

[u]

All types of media is good has long as its true. God of creation 'become man told in the nativty IN THE BIBLE ;to die for sinful man kind ,so they may have a chance to choose this wonderful gift of eternal live john 3;16, that life is in Jesus. Rev 1;8 & 1;18 WHERE we see the redeemer of man kind ;that will also judge the world HIS NAME IS JESUS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.THE ALMIGHTY.

[uDO]

Faith comes from hearing of the word ,without faith you can never become a christian ,NOR please GOD .
because it is through the written word that we understand that the world was made .AND it is through the bible that we recieve the whole councile of GOD. God so love the world that he gave his only son that who ever belieaves in him will not perish (in everlasting torment) BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIVE. john 3:16