Attacks on Christians rising?

First was the Alabama church burnings, which have been dismissed as "just a joke," but some evidence points to the fires as being religiously motivated. Now a Michigan woman and her husband were murdered after she witnessed to him on a phone chat line.

Two of the arson suspects Russell DeBusk and Ben Moseley were noted Satanists at their college. DeBusk's roommate said they got in discussions often about religion, with DeBusk making it clear he was a Satanist. Another student said both mocked him as he walked from the campus chapel.

The other suspect, Matthew Cloyd apparently had a blog where he made "cryptically violent" comments and wrote a message to Moseley that read in part: "Let us defy the very morals of society instilled upon us by our parents, our relatives and of course Jesus."

To be honest, it sounds like the guys liked the thought of being Satanists and enjoyed the "rebellion" of it, but they don't seem like the goat-killing type. What college kid do you know that starts off a sentence with "Let us defy..." This may honestly be "just a joke," but as Christianity Today's blog notes:

What if these had been students at a Baptist college who had targeted theaters? Might religion be a bigger part of media coverage then? Or what if abortion clinics had been burned while other medical facilities had been untouched? Might reporters be asking more questions? Would we be so accepting of assurances that "this was just a joke that got out of hand"?

The other story may be even stranger. Melissa Berels was a devout Christian who used breaks at work to talk to people on phone chat lines about her faith. Patrick Selepak was one of the people Berels was attempting to help.

Police say those phone conversations are what led Selepak to murder Berels, who was 10 weeks pregnant and her husband. Their bodies were discovered wrapped and bound in plastic and stashed under a tarp in the couples' bedroom.

Selepak and his fiancee Samantha Bachynski have been charged with the Berels murders and several other crimes. They are also expected to be charged with possibly two other murders.

Again this may be entirely coincidental to the victim's faith. Selepak may just have been looking for generic people to murder, but he may not.

One or even two cases do not a trend make, but they can be part of a trend. It will be interesting to see if more attacks happen and if the media makes note of it.

Comments

[Louis]

Yeah, right, with xians constituting some 70-80% of our population you're worried that you are under attack? This propensity - or should I say desire - of xians to consider themselves somehow "persecuted" in our culture would be laughable if it wasn't so idiotic. What is it in the xian psyche that wants to be persecuted?

Too bad you aren't. Maybe then you'd understand what it's REALLY like to be the target of bigotry and persecution instead of being the ones perpetrating it.

Typical sociopatholical behavior.

[seeker]

Xians are certainly not treated fairly by the media much of the time in our country, but I wouldn't call that persecution, not compared to how the Muslims persecute xians (mainly) and everyone else that isn't muslim around the world. (to date, over 4000 terrorist events since 9/11). http://thereligionofpeace.com/

[Aaron]

Louis, please stop reading what you want to see and actually read what I write. I never said Christians are being persecuted in America. I have repeatedly said that is not the case.

I only brought up these two incidents and said they do not make a trend, but they may possibly be part of a trend. I don't know. I'm just saying it is interesting to evaluate the situations.

I left open every possiblity because I don't know the motivations of the people involved, but you seem content to charge me with things I never said as if you know my thoughts.

Read my post again Louis and find where I said Christians were "under attack" or being "persecuted."

What would you think if several gay bars were burned down and they found three college students who did it and they made comments about being sympathetic to Fred Phelps, but maintained the arsons were just a joke that got out of hand? You would be demanding more investigation into their beliefs to see if they played a role in the attacks. You would claim this is yet another case of Christians persecuting gays.

But now if raise two issues where Christians or Christian buildings were targeted and leave open the possibility (among others) that they were selected because of their faith, you immediately dismiss my comments as "typical sociopatholical behavior."

Because of your bias against Christianity you see things that aren't there to fit with your preconceived ideas.

[mynym]

Because of your bias against Christianity you see things that aren't there to fit with your preconceived ideas.

It's interesting that the effeminate psyche seems to be more of an issue for some than actual facts. What is it about the Christian psyche that "wants to be persecuted"? Well, they're actually no worse than any other group when it comes to portraying themselves as victimized, given that victimization is the universal language of mankind. But as to "wanting to be persecuted," there is virtually no evidence that supports that claim. An interesting contrast is Gays© who seem to keep sodomizing each other to death. What is it about their psyche that leads them to want to be victimized and abused in manifestation of Sadean philosophy?

Maybe then you'd understand what it's REALLY like to be the target of bigotry and persecution instead of being the ones perpetrating it.

The people that persecute Gays© the most, are Gays© themselves. And why do you suppose one of their favorite insults is: "You're secretly just like me." or a weird version of the same psychological dynamic: "We will always be a part of you."

Note that there may be no other group that is as well educated and wealthy as people that choose to self-define as Gay© and yet the same people try to portray themselves as a victimized minority. What was it, 60% with a college degree? How does that compare with the African Americans that Gay© activists so often compare their self-defined minority with? They do seem to be victims though, mainly of their own Gay© community. How many times will that type of victimization be reported in the Old Press, though?

At any rate, neither Christians or Gays© are systematically persecuted in this culture, no more than fat people are or most other groups or classifications of people. You can take virtually any classification to define a "minority" and use some sensational instances (e.g. a fat kid killing themselves after being made fun of at school, Klebold and Harris killing Christians or a kid that self-defines as gay getting beat up) and pretend that an entire group is especially victimized but even such sensational instances do not define a "minority" that is having the equivalent experience as groups that have been systematically victimized physically. (To associate such things with slavery, the Holocaust, etc., is false, yet that is the propagandistic claim often enough.)

[Louis]

Your see, Aaron? That's exactly what I meant.

[Aaron]

mynym is his own person and says his own things, that has nothing to do with what I wrote and besides he only said that every group seeks to capitalize on their perceived persecution and that no group is systematically persecuted in our culture beyond certain individuals. That is a valid statement, it may or may not be true, but is not a persecuting statement or anything of the sort.

[Sam]

Mynym,

Your ability to look at hard facts and see something that isn't there is beyond incredible. Seriously, you should go on tour. All you'd need to do to prove your own conclusion that gays aren't targeted is visit a high school sometime.

Of course, you don't believe that there's anything wrong with targeting gays. That's why you can't believe that gays are in any way victimized. That's just sad really.

[Aaron]

Sam, he does raise an interesting point. Fat kids are picked on in high school, too. Nerds are picked on in high school, etc. Every group that does not fit in with the "norm" is picked on, sometimes violently, unfortunately sometimes deadly. Sometimes the non-normal pick back, violently and deadly.

Asking an honest question here - what makes gays different from fat kids or nerds who are beat up for who they are?

It is also a statistical fact that gays are more educated and have more college degrees than the average person. That does not bode well for the argument that they are held back by society.

I don't think gays should be targeted for abuse, but I also don't think nerds should be trash canned. Unless you can think of a way to eliminate all bullying from high school the argument is pointless.

[Sam]

Aaron,

So your argument is, "Because we can't eliminate it entirely, what can we do but tolerate its occurence?" I don't like that one bit. And you still haven't dealt with Mynym's issue - he doesn't have a problem with gays being targeted. It doesn't bother him a bit if a gay kid takes a beat down daily.

That's the problem here. As far as Mynym seems to be concerned, you get what you get for being who you are. I only wish that Mynym had taken daily beatings for being a Christian. Surely then he'd have more compassion in his heart. Well. Maybe.

[Louis]

Aaron just proves how tone-deaf xianists can be. He evidently sees nothing wrong with m&m's post. Typical.